i have not allowed my sons to join the boy scouts, specifically because of their discrimination against gay men and boys. it's not easy to explain to a 6 year old, why he can't join the boy scouts, but standing up for what is right is a better lesson in becoming a good man than anything the scouts could teach them.

When my son was a scout many years ago and I found out about this I pulled him out immediately. It is intolerable to me and should be to everyone. Discrimination in any form is unacceptable!

I don't have a problem with it, Forcing someone to accept something against their Religious beliefs is wrong as well. We all have a choice, ie change the channel. What's next, ban churches from preaching from the Bible?

I am not anti-gay, and I am a big proponent of individual rights. But I do not have a problem with the Scout policy. When a person identifies themselves as "gay", they are identifiying themselves by their sexualtiy. The issue of sexuality, gay or straight, is a sensitive, personal, confusing, and often embarassing issue, particularly for young boys and teens. In my opinion, it is an issue to be addressed between a child and their parent at the time and in the context they deem appropriate. It is not an issue for Scouting. Never has been, and it shouldn't be now. I do not want the issue of someone's sexualtiy coming up for discussion at a Scout meeting, or at a campout, or any other Scouting activity that my son attends, especially when I may not be around to help him understand the issues or answer questions or whatever. Beyond that, I find it hypocrytical that the people who are so loudly screaming for gay "rights" want to trample on the rights of a private organization to include or exclude persons for whatever reason. Do girls scouts allow boys to be members? Do they allow men as leaders? Is anyone complaining about that?

Roger, this isn't a religious issue. It's speech. The Court ruled that the Boy Scouts can expel gay scouts and scoutmasters under their right of expressive association. But it was a 5-4 decision, because, thankfully, four justices also realized that it should have been about civil rights.
And Robert, good God, why would you think that gays are walking around identifying themselves as such? Do you identify your sexuality on a daily basis? The issue of someone's sexuality "came up" as you put it, because the Boy Scouts Association made it an issue. The scout master didn't - and boys certainly didn't.

Mindy,

To cross that line “is child sexual abuse, the violation of children’s genetic reality aided by a society that is reverting back to the dark," said Judith A. Reisman, visiting professor of law at Liberty University School of Law. "If he has male parts, he is a male. The children in a given society always reflect its belief systems. Until the 1950s the Western world was built and run by adults largely clear about their sexuality and their beliefs. People used to ask which is stronger, nature or nurture. Now we are so 'smart' we don’t even know we have a nature.”

Mindy, would you alow transgender girls into the boy scouts? I bet you wouldn't.

Mindy, would you let a transgender girl join the boy scouts?

The boy scouts are about including girls of all nationalities and all religions.

I would only say, what's good for the girl scouts is good for the boy scouts.

Mindy, You make my point. The girl scouts may include transgender boys, but they don't include all boys. Therefore, they are exclusive to some extent. Why is it ok for them and not BSA? I'm not complaining. That's ok. In my view, there is nothing wrong with having a private organization with a membership policy. Another example, the Catholic Church won't allow Protestants to received Holy Communion in the Church. That's their right. Not every person gets to join every organization. I get that no one likes to be excluded, including me, but no one said life is fair.

Mr. Brancato,
The BSA adopted a policy to apply accross the board and prohibits "avowed homosexuals and atheists". The policy is only an issue if a Scout/Leader identifies himself as such. Therein lies the difficulty of this issue and the reason for my point about boys/leaders who are openly gay and the subject of sex. You can't extricate the issue of "sex" from the identity of being "gay". And that is the difference between the race argument you try to make. The issue of race is not a mature subject matter. In my opinion, the subject of sex is and should not be addressed in Scouting.
As for your question about whether I would feel the same way about a private organization that is exclusive to intelligent white children, the answer is yes. I really could care less. If I want the right to do as I choose, which I believe we all do in this country, how could I complain about others doing as they choose? In fact, no one has yet responded to that part of my post. How is it that gays get away with protesting for their "rights", but want to deny the Boy Scouts theirs? The Boy Scouts have the freedom of assembly, which inherently also provides for their right to exclude. It's in the same part of the Constitution which gives gay folks the freedom of speech with which to protest.

My sons were boy scouts over 20 years ago and I'll be honest, I never once looked past the local leaders to even consider what the national policy was on anything yet now in my life, I won't even consider making a donation or joining a group until I've personally vetted every nuance of an organization. Was I remiss 25 years ago; has my awareness grown in 25 years or, is it a combo of both? No matter the answer, its apparent that I've changed. I'm sure that many organizations have changed to meet the needs of what's best for them over time too. I have a choice to support a group or not and if they ask me or, if I feel the desire to let them know what I need to find that group attractive, I'll likely share but it's not my place, nor do I have the right to force my needs upon them. I like to think that I don't support groups that discriminate but the charter of my ladies club is quite clear on the gender requirements of members but that's what meets my needs there so I made the choice to join. If faced with the decision whether to have my sons join the BSA today, I'd have to consider what's important to me and would likely pass on that group in search of another option that better represents how I feel but thankfully, I have that choice and I'm grateful that others have the freedom to choose differently if they like.

Carol, my boys are grown now too. My husband and I signed them up for the local troop almost 15 years ago now and they lasted 2 weeks, maybe less. My boys hated the scouts. We didn't drill them on"why", but respected their disinterest. My boys devoted their young years to sports. Sports are an awesome release for their amazing young energy and always supports team effort and cooperation. We had a family friend who was a scout leader. He was a bully and a sadist, tormented his three boys with his gestapo BSA. My friend divorced this monster, thank God. Her boys are still recovering from their painful childhood 15 years later and they will be ok because their Mother has condemned her husband's BSA indoctrination and his personal teachings and torments.
The BSA of today is repressiveand hateful. We need to protect our children from these groups.

Selene, Selene

11:25 pm on Saturday, February 2, 2013

Don't use the thin disguise of "rights" for something that is oppressive and hateful and exculsive. Shame on you.

If we had WET
(White Entertainment Television),
we'd be racists.

If we had a White Pride Day,
you would call us racists.

If we had White History Month,
we'd be racists.

If we had any organization for only whites to 'advance'
OUR lives, we'd be racists.

We have a Hispanic Chamber of Commerce, a Black Chamber of Commerce,
and then we just have the plain Chamber of Commerce.
Wonder who pays for that??

A white woman could not be in the Miss Black American pageant,
but any color can be in the Miss America pageant.
If we had a college fund that only gave white students scholarships...
You know we'd be racists.

There are over 60 openly proclaimed Black Colleges in the US ..
Yet if there were 'White colleges',
that would be a racist college.

In the Million Man March,
you believed that you were marching for your race and rights.
If we marched for our race and rights,
you would call us racists.

You are proud to be black, brown, yellow and orange,
and you're not afraid to announce it.
But when we announce our white pride,
you call us racists.

Selene, selective hatred is repugnant so stop it.

#1: Point in fact, students of a variety of hues are not barred from so-called "black" colleges. A lovely friend of mine, blonde, of German ancestry, attended a "black" school on an affirmative action scholarship, and she is only one of many European-Americans to do such a thing.

The Million Man March appears to have been targeted to a particular hue of human (I'm not for exclusvity either, g), however the issue was inner city poverty and values education.

Chambers of Commerce are paid for by their members, not by you.

I cannot speak for why certain organizations exist today, however, weren't they founded because certain societally maligned groups were excluded from what we'll call mainstream groups? It could be argued that there still isn't fairness in some instances. It could be argued that the groups have outgrown their necessity. Depends on whom you are asking.

Following your logic, g, should there be a Gay Scouts organization founded, since you don't want them in the BSA?

#2: No one is saying the BSA doesn't have the right to exist or to exclude. I've done a lot of research on all sides of this issue, and I've not heard that once. For many, the argument is that if it excludes, it should have no place on publicly funded property, the president should not be honorary chair, it should receive no public dollars... you get the idea. Like the exclusionary Chambers of Commerce... let the excluders pay the tab and provide the space for their free assembly. That's the argument.

G, I did not accuse WASPs of anything. Your screed should be directed elsewhere.

Beats me. I don't know their ethnic makeup or religion. Personally, I am not discussing the issue of slavery here (or at all for that matter; no interest) because that is not the topic of this story. I will say you are correct that slave owners came in a variety of hues and leave it at that. Engage someone else if you're trying to pick a fight.

Natalie, you stated: For many, the argument is that if it excludes, it should have no place on publicly funded property

I guess you would allow murderers, thieves, rapists to belong to the BSA.

I am a parent who wants to do everything possible to protect my children. I would absolutely exclude all miscreants.

G, you know that's specious. You know exactly what I mean. Of course I protect my kids from miscreants, a group that IMO would include bigots. (Not calling you or anyone here that.) What's more troubling than your straw man argument, however, is that you are comparing your LGBT neighbors to murderers, thieves and rapists. Very sad.

Natalie, To win an argument you have the power to incise all dissenting opinions with insidious scapel.

Did you ever find out the meaning of straw man argument?
A straw man argument is an argument in which the oppositions true point of view is ignored and a substitute, false argument is imposed.

My argument was based on facts: The Boy Scouts of America (BSA) is facing allegations that it hid hundreds of cases of child molestation on the part of Scout leaders from the 1970s to the 90s, and even helped admitted offenders cover their tracks, allowing them to cite other reasons for suddenly resigning from their leadership positions.

According to a report in the September 16 Los Angeles Times, a review of 1,600 internal Boy Scouts case files from those years uncovered details of both alleged and confirmed child molesters within the organization. Frequently, according to the Times, volunteers and employees “suspected of abuse were allowed to leave, citing bogus reasons such as business demands, 'chronic brain dysfunction,' and duties at a Shakespeare festival.”

G, I am not arguing with you. No time. No interest. Not in my job description. That's your game. Enjoy. Ciao.

Intellecual postering does not take the place of a good heart and common sense.