Well said Pfeiffer, couldn't agree more and I'm glad I'm not the only one disgusted by people discouraging kids from getting out exercising and avoiding drugs/alcohol on the weekends.
Sean fleming

Not that I care either way, but it IS private property. My father was always very involved in the lake as I grew up, and was most definitely one of the guys yelling at you to get off of it in the winter. As far as ice skating is concerned, it boils down to a private organization maintaining the regulations (both trespassing and safety related) it has set. The lake can be a beautiful thing, and should be enjoyed, but since LPPOA does not have it officially tested for ice safety, there's just no way they can turn a blind eye to the people using it to skate.

The fact that this lake is still private is as stupid as charging a fee to swim in the ocean along the Jersey shore. People should be "allowed" to use the beautiful lake. I agree with Eric, the kids are out having fun like our fathers and grandfathers would.

Yes, We have a beautiful lake and when you see people skating or guys playing hockey on it, bring tears to my eyes. It brings back the days when my family and friends would meet on the lake and children skate all day. I understand the safety part , and yes safety comes first. But i ofter wonder if we can have someone check the ice on a daily basis and rope off the part that is safe. Also maybe have passes for skating and charge for the winter season. Maybe that would help generate money for the lake. I also remember signs all over the saying no skating. And of course we all did skate. I thought that protects the lake from being sued. Just tossing the idea around.

Mr. Mittermaier brings up an important point that Lake Parsippany is a private lake and I know the LPPOA wants to ensure the safety of everyone enjoying the lake. LPPOA would be liable if anything were to happen to the skaters. It was not that long ago that two precious lives were lost on Budd Lake when the ice gave out. I am sure that Mr. Pfeiffer, as a member of the lake, knows that skating is prohibited here, as is clearly explained in the LPPOA newsletter for reasons like that. I know, as a member, the LPPOA always encourages us to attend the monthly board meetings or better yet, volunteer on the board to help bring the changes we, as a community would like to see. Perhaps he can head a committee to investigate the interest level among members for instituting skating, what it would cost to test the ice regularly for strength and integrity, and find out how much it would cost for insurance to cover it. Then all members can make an informed decision as to whether that would be a direction we could go in. I know how very hard the LPPOA board works to try and make the lake a wonderful place for fun and recreation. Unfortunately, very few people volunteer to help govern this organization and they can always use people with great ideas. It is unfortunate that Mr. Pfeiffer felt he was spoken to rudely. It would've been better if both parties could have spoken peacefully. However, the skaters were breaking rules, putting our community and themselves at risk.

It is privately owned, so the owners set the rules. Some beaches are privately owned and restrict access, too. Safety is a major concern. Remember the two teens who drowned in Budd Lake this year? They were there one day after approved skating. Even if a waiver is signed, it doesn't stop a suit from being filed and attorneys' fees generated. In order to protect themselves, the Association says no skating. That's the rule. Don't like it? Sorry. It's not up to you. You wouldn't like it if someone came onto your front lawn and decided to have a picnic. Even if they cleaned up after themselves. I am glad kids are getting out there, but there are safer activities. And six year olds? I doubt a six year old would be calm enough to know what to do if he slipped under the ice and couldn't find the hole again. Besides, if they were to test the ice for safety and allow skating, would the fees they charged be enough to cover the maintenance cost? Would lake members have to pay to skate? Sounds to me like it increases liability, increases expenses, and does not increase revenue enough to cover it. And if there is a law suit.... Who pays? The Association would need additional liability insurance, and that would increase our lake dues. Sorry. I am not wiling to pay more for your choice to put yourself at risk. Go to Mennen Ice Arena. Or find a nearby lake where skating is allowed. I hear Budd Lake allows skating.

I know at that lake we have old biddies that have nothing else better to do than harass kids but in the same respect are these kids under adult supervision I sure would hate to see a Budd Lake disaster occur !!!
The winters are not like years gone by and I know from people who grew up on the lake that it' doesn't freeze up like them "Good Old Days " !!!

I think anyone skating on a lake this size when we had 50-degree weather only a few weeks ago is crazy. Moreover, anyone allowing their 6-year old to skate on it is being negligent. The lake isn't fully frozen, it's not safe, and it's not public property. So although the person chiding the grown-up skaters might've used a nicer tone, maybe he just wanted to make sure to get his point across.

Siobhan,

I find that you would mention the story of the Budd Lake Children who drowned and than end your comment with "I hear Budd Lake Allows Skating," very disrespectful to the victims and families and loved ones of the victims in that tragic story. Probably why you were ashamed to use your name. I put my name on this because I am not afraid to speak. If I remember correctly that occurred on a Monday Night in the dark. First of all we do not go out in the dark as we know it is very dangerous. My friends and I were skating on a different lake the Sunday before that tragedy occurred and all had mentioned the fact that, because of the weather, it would be the last day the ice would be safe anywhere. I heard about the drownings the next day. The group of us who go out on Lake Parsippany, with the exception of a few, are well over the age of 18 and some close to or into our 30s. We have been doing this for quite a while and would never let anyone endanger themselves under our supervision. The kids on Budd Lake were just that, kids. Raising awareness can go a long way. I am 275 lbs if I am not going in, no one is going in. I made it from over by Deerfield Rd across to Marcella two weeks ago and made it without any problems. First time I was able to and or tried it in probably five years because I knew it wasn't safe until that day. Not to mention we are not too far off shore when we play and Lake Parsippany is not as deep as these other lakes such as Budd Lake.

Lake Parsippany as a whole has been going down the drain for years. The Lake has been taken over by self-righteous hypocrites. I’ve lived in the lake for many years and the enforcement of the rules change to the convenience of those in charge. Ice Skating has always been banned in the time I’ve lived here, however is selectively enforced. When the children of Board members played hockey no one was chased, nor did anyone the question the rules. Now that this is no longer the case, the rules matter. I’ve skated on the lake numerous times over the last 20 years and never fallen in. Of course I and my friends (like it appears Mr. Pfeiffer’s do) always skated where the water was shallow. Anyone who has lived here for any period of time knows that: 1. The water at the end of Barnsboro rd and Caldwell rd is 2 feet at best mid-summer. 2. The water between Alpine rd and Berlin rd is less then 2 feet mid summer. 3. The water at the end of Lawrence Rd is under 2 feet mid summer. 4. The water at the end of Longport in the cove is under 2 feet as well. One wouldn’t think that a big deal wouldn’t be made kids playing hockey in those areas (as they always seem to), however there is always someone that thinks the lake is for sailing only and feels the need to scream. Note to the Board this is another example of how you continue to make friends and encourage membership. Keep up the good work, you’ll be giving the lake to the town in a few years as this rate.

Dear Eric:
Why is it you think you can break sensible rules whenever you determine those rules are not to your liking. You should know that "signing a waiver" does nothing as far as the law is concerned. A responsible adult would see to it that kids (as young as 6!) do not put themselves and others in danger. Whenever I see someone doing something dangerous and stupid, I think of the first aiders who have to put their lives in danger to save those foolish people who think they are above the rules. STAY OFF THE ICE!

Kimberly, I have thought about getting more involved but the responses to my letter alone prove that there are a lot of people who have essentially made up their minds. I bet not one person who argues against my points can honestly say they have read it with an open mind. Come for a walk on the ice, see how breath taking it can be. Let me show you some things. Since it is so forbidden in town we could be one curious kid away from tragedy. Don't you think that with that "hazard," as most of you seem to see it so close by it would be smart to raise awareness and teach people about it? You say go to another lake that allows it. I say I am proud to live down the street from one of the nicest lakes to skate on in the county. What's wrong with that? I think that's what the term "Pride in Parsippany" stood for.

Robert, thank you very much for providing a perfect example of what I am talking about. You do not know me nor have you ever had a normal interaction with me, yet you automatically assume I believe I am above the rules. I am simply stating my opinion that I feel this rule is outdated and we are letting something that could be a good community out reach go to waste. Have you ever had an opinion sir? Have you ever felt strongly enough to speak up about something you believe in. Well sir, the difference between you and I is I am not afraid to speak up about it. I am also able to go into the situation with a level head. I have not dis respected you, all I ask for is the same common courtesy. Or have we forgotten what common courtesy is in lake parsippany? Do we just scream at people because we disagree with their opinion?

Hi Eric, I really do try to read things with an open mind and truly do understand the exhilaration and passion you feel on the lake in the ice. My whole family loves the outdoors: tent camping, hiking, snow shoeing and nordic skiing. There is something amazing being out in the crisp weather. I also believe that you are responsible and knowledgable about ice safety. That is why I really felt that you would be excellent on the board or heading a committee. I am uncomfortable though with people breaking the posted rules and personally feel if you want to change it you should go for it, but within the legal way of working to change the rules through the LPPOA. I know how frustrating that can be especially when you feel the powers that be will disagree with your point of view. However, it is an effective way to make change. I know that my husband and kids would love to be able to safely skate on the lake if it was legal and would be on board with any committee that would investigate how to safely make it happen in a way economical to the LPPOA. I think I tried to share my point in a respectful way and if the tone didn't read well over the Internet, please accept my apologies. I hope that you will volunteer to head the group so this change does become a reality for your family and for others! By the way, I don't think it was my post that told you to go to another lake. I believe that was another person's. My family has always said it would be cool to be able to go skating there.

Kimberly, all of my responses are with the utmost respect. I appreciate your response and was sincere in mine with no ill feelings or intentions. Thank you for the support on the topic.

Although having no "credentials" other than REAL LIFE experience (which I think is far better than anything you could learn in a classroom) there is HUNDREDS of years of ice safety experience between the 20 some odd MEN who have been regularly skating on the ice for the past 35 years. Believe it or not, or lives are important to us. I can promise you that our safety is far more important to us then it is to the LPPOA. We have all been lake members for years, not to mention living here our entire lives and either attending Lake Parsippany or Eastlake elementary schools. I UNDERSTAND that there are signs posted stating NO ICE SKATING, we all know this. Getting kicked off the ice is a NEW thing to us. I remember being a young boy and playing Ice Hockey on Lake Parsippany while Parsippany Police Officers watched us with smiles on there faces, happy to see young kids staying out of trouble. Anyway, the issue at hand is the LPPOA members who for some strange reason think that they have some sort of jurisdiction over the lake need to be stopped. I have never been approached more maliciously in my entire life, by a Police Officer you ask? No, the Parsippany Troy Hills Police Department have some of the finest officers patrolling our streets and keeping our neighborhoods safe, I was approached by a middle aged man who other than being a Lake member like myself has no power. Changes need to be made

Also, my thoughts and prayers go out to the families and friends as well as the two boys from Budd Lake. However, for those of you who keep bringing this up, the incident that took place on Budd Lake was easily preventable. It had been in the upper 40s the day prior to the incident and in the low 50s the day the boys fell through.

The area that people were skating on in lake par is 2.5 feet deep.
It seems to me the lake should be working towards providing area people the ability to buy memebership in return to skate. I can assure you, for those of us that drip Lake Par water from our blood, we would be willing and understanding to meet new age standards to preserve heritage.
SO- WHERE ARE THE PEOPLE YELLING "STAY OFF THE ICE" GOING TO MEET US IN THE MIDDLE? We are willing, are you? OR ARE WE TO UNDERSTAND THAT IN NO WAY, SHAPE OR FORM WILL THE LAKE EVER BE USED TO SKATE ON AGAIN?
Is that 'sensible'? To say never to this? Or is it sensible to provide ways to utilize the lake for what it was meant for- FUN!

And to those of you who keep bringing up Budd Lake- with all due respect, the last time I checked, people are capable of drowning when the water is warm, too. the shock value of something close to home is not the issue, god rest thier souls. Budd Lake is not synonymous. If you are really thinking with an open mind, then why would we let people swim? HUMANS CAN DROWN IN THE SUMMER, TOO- WHY NOT TAKE THE SAME SAFETY MEASURES IN THE WINTER THAT WE TAKE IN THE SUMMER?
To the thought that the weather is warmer now than it was- it seems to be getting colder, no? Lets leave that to the farmers almanac, and the rating of the ices CURRENT CONDITION to _______ Does ownership even know how to do this? Are they qualified to provide members with accurate information on how to enjoy the lake in the winter... Or is this STAY OFF AND GET OUT sign come with no questioning? We can try to meet half way,
OR- you can just keep screaming profanity in the earshot of 6 yr olds, because one way or another we will always be Lake Par kids.
We will skate, and proudly. If you care so much about my safety, understand that and realize I am willing to bend over backwards to rightfully do it.
But I'm not going to hide behind rightouesness- If you believe skating on the lake is only done by bad people, then I am proudly a 'bad' person.
-Ryan Pfeiffer, 33

it is absolutely ridicolous how the lppoa finds the right not to let people skate on the lake. we dont bother anyone but people have to take time out of their lives to call the police on the people on it. if you are to fall in, it is about 3 ft deep and is no danger to anyone.

Pfeiff, I applaud your efforts and believe you make some excellent points.
Knowing your backround and abilities as a hockey player I would agree with the post that maybe some committy can be formed regarding safety first.
Having some experience with private organazations may I suggest walking softly while you are trying to make a difference.
Good luck and Skate On !!!

I think that it is totally unfair to take away the joy that skating on the lake brings to all the young people that live here. They are not harming anyone and it helps to keep them out of trouble and away from the TV. The lake is not deep and there is no harm to anyone, so why take away such enjoyment from these kids. The look on their faces is priceless. The LPPOA needs to get younger blood on their panel.

My first response is to "Shiobhan", you are a disgusting human being to end your rant with that comment...

Secondly to the skaters, I feel for you guys. You're trying to do something wholesome and innocent and I can see your frustration. The problem is we have become such a litigious society that you have become collateral damage to the mindset of the "sue-happy. One simple look into our township government and you can just see the amount of frivolous legal action brought by the "grown-ups" in the PD, BOE, town workers, etc. resulting in millions in attorney fees, settlements and premium increases.

Unfortunately, the LPPOA is a small, private organization that just does not have the resources to combat such litigation, so most unfortunate, the kids today suffer. I won't bore you with the days of my youth where we went bow hunting (home made) in the woods, ice fished, skated and got to enjoy true fun in nature. Those days are gone for you guys and you have my sympathy.

Continued

Part II

Realizing this rant isn't offering you much I will leave you with this bit of advice:
The next time one of these old, miserable losers comes at you with profanity, whip out the phone and get it right up on YouTube to embarrass them and their families. Just as you are expected to be responsible (according to their vantage), they too need to be responsible and not think they have carte Blanche to bully you kids just because they've been appointed (in some cases self-appointed) the hall monitor of the lake without consequences. Keep fighting the power, son!

As far as drowning goes, it is said one could drown in a glass of water. When someone falls thru the ice on a lake they rarely 'go under the ice and cannot find the hole', unless they are on river ice which is infinitely more dangerous than lake ice because of the water flowing beneath it..( i.e. ice erosion). On a lake, they drown because of several things...the ice around the break becomes covered with water making it even more impossible to get a hand hold, hypothermia and panic sets in quickly, and winter clothing become waterlogged. Teach your children like I taught mine...lay down flat thereby distributing your weight, have others grab your skates to creat a human chain and extend your hand, or your HOCKEY STICK, and assist the person back up onto the ice and etc etc. If you can't teach your kids basic ice safety, like crossing the street or riding a bike, and how to "read" the ice,then stay off the ice and stick to the video games .

ThePfeif

It doesn't take to many words to say: it isn't safe, it's illegal. Get over it. Your kids want to skate then take them Mennan.

Well gracie I am sorry you feel that way. Sometimes the things we know the least about scare us the most and some folks, instead of making an effort to learn, just speak out against it with no actual knowledge of the topic. The people against the issue have not made one intelligent argument against it. Every response seems to be like arguing with a 5 year old. Typical 5 year old response: "because I say so." You say its not safe, I say you are making a statement on something that you know nothing about. We have established the fact that it is against the rules but thank you for reiterating that for some reason. I think what we are trying to do now is get that changed. Please keep up and pay attention so you can participate intelligently.

Gracie- Thanks for the time and consideration you put into understanding where we are coming from. It shows in both your compassion and your understanding of rules and laws, especially in this country.
Thanks for taking the time to understand that when you really care about something, we live in a country where the citizens are granted a voice in such matters, especially when discussing an organization with an available membership- private or not, last time I checked, they take cash....
Thanks, Gracie, for moving past the very fabric of this and its many moving parts, including heritage, respect and pride in the very property we discuss, and acting superior.
Thanks, also, for trying to relate by thinking about something you grew up with and treated with pride and respect, only to be told that it is now illegal. Thanks for forgetting that you would want to venture down any and every avenue to find out why and if you could change it...
Or maybe you wouldn't and you just can't understand that not everyone is wrong for not seeing the world the way you do.
I don't know- I guess the reader can decide-
But thanks for your 2 cents- keep the change, I'll keep speaking on behalf of the change I hope comes to the culture I was raised in.
Have a nice day now.

Mr Eric Pfeiffer do you realize that you have personally insulted every poster who has a difference of opinion with you? You ask that people should have an open mind when reading your letter and claim to have maintained the utmost respect in your responses but if this is how you responded when someone told you to get off the ice, I would think that even the most cordial might have lost patience. You think ice skating should be allowed, others disagree. Both sides have valid points but attacking people who disagree with you surely doesn't help promote your side of the argument.

I am all for everyone following the rules and if the rules say, "No Skating," no one should be skating on the lake. I would love to skate on the lake if it was allowed AND if deemed safe and affordable to the LPPOA. I'd like to know why the ban on skating was put in place. Was it because it is not safe or is it because lawsuits would just bankrupt the LPPOA and the entire lake (including all of the summertime activities) would end up being closed off to everyone? I'm not a lawyer, but I do think that signing the waivers do nothing to protect the lake from lawsuits and that people still can and will sue even when waivers are signed. Since Mr. Pfeiffer would like to see change, I suggest that he (and I say this in all sincerity) take on the position of President of the LPPOA. The position is opening up soon (Mr. O'Connor recently announced he would be stepping down from this post in the lake's newsletter). I think this would be the only way to start to implementing the changes at the lake that Mr. Pfeiffer feels are needed. I sincerely hope Mr. Pfeiffer will consider running for President of the lake association.

Nobody has made any valid points...we all know it is posted that there is no ice skating, we all know what took place in Budd Lake, we all know that a 6 year old would in fact need the assistance of an adult if he had fallen through the ice, and we absolutley no that ice skating on a frozen body of water may very well be dangerous. If I'm not mistaken, the issue at hand is not only trying to come to some sort of middle ground but also to put an end to the LPPOA members who think that tey are law enforcement kicking people off of the lake...

While fishing in the summer I have witnessed men pull up in their vehicle and jump out and approach a couple in an aggressive manor who were having a nice lunch sitting on a bench taking in the beautiful scene during their lunch break...As we all know, Campus, Sylvan and Dryden bring thousands of people to our community each day from the corporate center. Most see a lake and think it is a great spot to take a moment and gather themselves before having to go back to their stressful jobs. Little do they know that any minute an enraged LPPOA member will pull up to harass, intimidate, and belittle them

Those of you who have not grown up on this lake and have not seen what we have seen, heard what we have heard really have no business making any sort of comments. Unless you have had a first hand encounter with one of these LPPOA "heroes" who want to kick people off of lake property all day. I know this is a public forum however, I really don't think it's any of your concern

Carol, based on your comment I feel you are reading my responses as if I am writing them out of anger. I am not. I am simply stating my side of the argument in response to anyone who opposes it. Nothing was written as an insult. If is taken that way I sincerely appologise as it is not my intention to insult anyone. I am simply asking for a legitimate, educated reason as to why people say the lake should NEVER be skated on because it is dangerous, when I have been doing it for 20 years with no issues. I am still here to argue the topic. I have not drowned in 20 years. I am trying to explain to people, if you have the right knowledge it is completely safe and a very good time. I have invited these folks to meet respectfully at the lake and let me explain what I mean. All I am asking for are people to open their minds a little and instead of fearing something they do not know and completely writing it off, try to learn about it and make an educated decision.

These men who come to "ask us to leave" are clearly afraid of the ice on the lake as they will scream to us from the shore as opposed to walking out to speak to us. They look at the ice as if it is foreign to them, I am offering some of my knowledge about the ice but to help folks understand, but no one seems to want to look at it with an open mind.

Part 2..
Second, the LPPOA rules don’t allow anyone, member or not, to be on the ice. The LPPOA doesn’t have insurance to cover ice skating or ice fishing, and the ice isn’t tested. If the membership were willing to cover the additional insurance cost and testing costs then we would be all for it. But our insurance agents have advised the association that if we were to allow ice skating that we would likely be dropped from our coverage entirely, and if we could find some other company to insure the lake that it would cost and additional $50,000 to $75,000 a year, meaning about a 40% increase in everyone’s yearly membership fees. So let’s get back to what happened on Wednesday. As you guys were about 150 yards away from me out on the ice I had to “yell” out to say that you needed to get off the ice and that ice skating wasn’t allowed on the lake. But you already knew that. So the arguing started as to why you had to get off the ice. I stated that if you didn’t get off the ice the police would be called in order to make you get off. Then your group started with the insults and thought it was all pretty funny and decided to stay on the ice. So after the police officer arrived and your guys eventually made your way off the ice, it was you and your buddy John who continued with the arguing and veiled threats. The two of you argued with the officer to the point that he decided to cite you both for trespassing.

Part 3..
A great example for the kids you talk about. Lastly, the most important issue here is safety. Despite what your opinion of the ice may be, the lake isn’t tested. While you were out on the ice on Wednesday you could see open patches of water further out in the lake, and we were just coming off a week where we had temperatures in the 50’s. In the past 2 years there have been tragedies on Budd Lake, Indian Lake and our own Lake Parsippany from people falling through the ice. What we don’t want to happen is to have other kids who may see you guys on the lake one day, and then have them go out on the lake on another day thinking everything is okay, and tragedy happen as unlikely you may think that is. After all they are just kids, they see you guys and they think that ice skating is allowed and the ice must be okay. If you want to make a positive difference how about calling the Mayor’s office and the Mayor’s Action Committee and ask how come they haven’t filled in the roller skating rink with ice so that Parsippany residents can ice skate?

Dan, thank you very much for your response. It is nice to hear from someone official, especially someone involved. I appreciate the clarity and suggestions at the end. I apologize if in haste to prove a point I made it seem as if you were using profanity. If you were provoked, maybe you were justified. Again, all assumptions- useless, subjective blabber from me so far...
I do have four questions, answer them only if comfortable. These are a heck of a lot more constructive-
1. What is the current rate for yearly membership?
2. How many members does the LPPOA boast?
3. What insurance company covers LPPOA?
4. Who makes the final decision on choosing this company?
Again, thanks for a useful response. I hope you dont mind my questions because you were hoping your response would produce a sense of finality, as your response has triggered a great first step in helping us take proper steps in seeing what obstacles lie in front of the desire.

All who skate with us are members of the lake.

Ryan,
There a different levels of membership for the lake and the information is on our website and it will be updated shortly for 2013. Basically a single membership will be $220, and a family membership $380 in 2013. There is a combination of about 500 memberships the past couple of years. We have an insurance agent that solicits quotes every year so the companies could change from year to year. The Board of Directors, which by the way currently only has 7 members when there should be 20, will make all of the decisions concerning the lake unless there is a quorum of members at the monthly lake meeting, but that has happened once in the 13 years I have been on the board.
Our biggest issue is funding. Our funding comes from membership fees membership is voluntary, unlike some other lakes in Morris County. Some people think the lake is town owned, or funded by the town, but we receive no money from the town. So we have people whose properties are literally on the lake, or lake view, who don't join and support the lake, yet their properties are worth tens of thousands more because of their location. We are always looking for people willing to help and a lot do.

Thanks Edd-
If this is true, I find it slightly misleading of Dan to express how all board members are volunteers. While this may be true, would it be fair to say the budget itself is much more complicated than a quote of "50k to 75k", and to only speak of volunteers while knowing there are those on salary seems conveniently selective, but innocent all the same. A 40% increase to current membership (we will use the # Edd provided for an individual membership of $225) would be $90 increase- so if Dans informationis correct, taking the basement price of the insurance @ $50k, that would insinuate LPPOA is generating 555 members a year (ceiling cost of $75k would imply a membership of roughly 835). It seems to me the estimated membership would be 600-700 memberships a yr with the rough information given...

So much for that Edd! Thanks for the quick response Dan- 500 is a easy, workable number! I am not trying to reduce your numbers for lies or holes... I am reducing your numbers so I can understand what a 10% increase in members would do to both the membership rate and the insurance rate. A 5%, 20% etc.

Dan- I want to again thank you for caing the winds in here and settling the waters. The ice freezes better that way ; ) srry couldnt resist! Anyway, my next question is, what is the cost of swimming insurance, and what would the cost be had you not provided lifegaurds and it was deemed "swim at your own risk?" Is this question even a relevant thought if you know where I am going?

*calming

Thanks Dan- I'm off to the rink for the rest of the day, but I appreciate the extension of your email address and plan on responding to you this weekend.
And thanks for valuable insight, Edd.

Dan you putting this on previous boards indicates the current board has not looked into it. Maybe its time to revisit it From the responses to this article it seems like there could be some potential members who could be swayed into joining if ice skating was available. Especially considering how the reduced beach hours and facilities has been hurting membership over the past few years.

As long as the approach to change is "this is the way its been done, we will keep doing it this way. If you have a new idea then join the lake, become a board member and maybe we'll think about it" you are going to keep having a hard time building a larger membership base .

Dan, If u read prior comments I sate that we are all well aware that it is posted NO ICE SKATING...been doing it or 25 years...so I guess what I am sayin is it will never change, we will never stop so a chane has to be made on the LPPOA end

Before venturing onto a frozen pond, please check if it's thick enough to skate on. If possible use an ice auger to drill a hole in the ice. If you don't have an ice auger and the ice is clear find an angle at which you can see where the ice ends and water begins.
Here are the meanings of ice thickness: 3" (7cm) or less STAY OFF, 4" (10cm) ice skating, walking, cross country skiing, 5" (12cm) one snowmobile or ATV, 8"-12" (20-30cm) one car or small pickup, 12"-15" (30-38cm) one medium truck (pickup or van), If you can't see the depth of the ice, use the weather and color of the ice as a guide. If the ice is: Bluish white- safe to skate on, Black or clear-very thick and safe, Pitted and milky-very unstable

I totally agree with you. Kids can't do anything fun these days.

Supprisingly I don't see any comments from life long residents of Lake Parsippany contributing to this commentary. Why is that?

Where is the commentary on what winter weekends on the ice was like when we were kids? On any good weekend when the lake was frozen it would be packed with dozens, maybe on a good saturday a hundred or more, people skating...members and non members alike...playing hockey, 3 and 4 games at a time, ice boating, skatesailing, and just enjoying outdoor winter activities. My father, Vinnie Sapanor, Al Walthers, the Mulvanertons and others would make sure the ice was good, and they taught us kids how to read the ice, what was safe and what to stay away from. Those men, and others, made the lake what it was back then, because it was their home and the lake is why we lived there.

In the summer all the beaches, there were 4 of them, were packed every day, life guards rotated around to every beach, there were movies on the beach at night, there were refreshment stands at every beach and juke boxes...and there weren't half as many residents as there are today. Almost every family had a membership. I'm not living in the past or being too nostalgic but what happened to the LPPOA? Lake Parsippany Property Owners Association. You own property, you pay. When you sell your house it gets listed as "Desirable Lake Parsippany". I would sue you on the grounds that although it be desirable, I can't use it without joining. Make it mandatory. A great many lake communities in New Jerseydo it, why not the LPPOA.? Insurance covered.

One Autumn day, coming home from, I stopped by Leo's Tavern and walked up onto the path to watch a beautiful sunset over he lake...autumn colors, reflections on the water. A beautiful evening. I was chatting with a 92 year old man who was also enjoying the scene. An LPPOA "badgechecker" said we had to leave the property immediately because we didn't have our badges with us, and I was a member at the time...my last year being a member because of that type of attitude. How many more sunsets did that old guy have to look forward to, and I ofte wondered what he thought of the LPPOA after that. He certainly wasn't pleased that day. That, in a nutshell, is what happened to my beloved home of Lake Parsippany.

Mr Pfeiffer,
I sympathize with you and your kids. However, your last post just bolstered the LPPOA's position.Though you didn't mean it literally, your comment "I would sue you on the grounds that although...." Is exactly what is wrong with society today AND the reason kids don't have the freedom we shared as kids. Too many people trigger happy to file lawsuits, too many attorneys waiting to make a score. Falling through ice (not even drowning) is actionable. Until we get out of lawsuit mode, we are a system beyond repair. Good luck in your plight for the kids (stated sincerely).

To Par4theCourse. First, post your name, don't be affraid...my boys and I aren't. Second...my comment refering to 'sue the LPPOA' was about not letting us use the lake for what it was intended...swimming, fishing, sailing ...and ice skating, Not because of negligence on either the LPPOA's part or those who dictate it's use, or the incompetence of those who do use the lake. You taught your kids how to swim before you threw them in the water, I hope. I taught my kids to understand the potential hazzards of, and how to read, the ice. Open water when the lake is almost totally frozen? Perhaps you should ask the Army Corps of Engineers, the NJDOT, and the LPPOA management people from the 70's why they let the lake become one big catchbasin for the runoff of Rte. 80 and the upper neighborhoods of the lake...Allentown Rd. and Parsippany Rd. The only open ice is on the east side of the lake after a good freeze. Wonder why? It runs from Everett Rd. to the dam. If you can't figure it out yourself, let me know and I'll explain it to you. And as far as lawsuits for falling thru the ice, nobody I know, or their children, would sue the LPPOA for negligence... they would discipline their kids for not paying attention and say "be more careful" the next time.

I think the town should intiate imminet domain over the lake. It could be an asset for all of town of Parsippany to use. Why limit the use of the lake to a few fortunate owners around the lake. Would teach to old grouches a lesson about sharing and civility also. After all immient domain has been used to build big block malls and other commercial enterprise to the real detriment of a neighborhood. Maybe we could call it the "Lake of Dreams" for Jamie. Ha Ha

Correct me if I'm wrong...doesn't the LPPOA now offer a membership of sorts to residents of outlaying communities...i.e. the apartments along Parsippany Rd. and Greenhill and this side of Littleton Rd.?

In addition to my fathers questions, can anyone answer this for me--- It has been said that LPPOA could potentially "fault" on payment- Well then who owns the property?? Better yet, if the LPPOA faults, what will current ownership decide to do with the Lake??? Man made the lake.... get my drift??

Anyone wanting to ice skate for free, there is a public outdoor skating rink on Parsippany Blvd (near the town engineering dept). The ice is only a few inches thick, so no concerns about falling through.

Bob: there is no residency requirement to join the LPPOA. Pay the fee get the badges.

Ryan: not sure what you are asking. The lake is wholly owned by the LPPOA, there is no mortgage or payments to some other owner for the LPPOA to possibly default on.

Are you sure, Edd?

I lived there for 60 years, Edd. If you didn't live within the established confines of 'Lake Parsippany', and there were established boundries...roughly Alderney Dairies, Bates Farm, which was cut in half circa 1957 by 287, Parsippany Rd., Banjolies farm or 202 ( Littleton Rd.)...you didn't live in Lake Parsippany and could not become a member of the LAKE PARSIPPANY PROPERTY OWNERS ASSOCIATION. The key words being 'Property Owners'. It was a private community. And, as advertised, not a "natural beauty" but a manmade one. There were as many if not more summer residents than permanent ones, but they were property owners. And we all enjoyed the activities the lake provided, year round, even the summer residents and their family and friends from Jersey City and Brooklyn would come here in the winter to skate and enjoy the lake. So, look into the real history of the lake and the people who made it what it was, and not the propaganda the board, influenced by the realtors, lawyers and insurance companies,

who made it what it is today...Desirable Lake Parsippany...where your property values increase...location, location, location...but freedom of use is limited by a few dictator llike individuals and not a community effort. It's the main, perhaps the only reason, why I moved away. Bob Pfeiffer